485 W of class A valve power - yeee-haah!

[selmerdave]

Originally posted by scotty j:
No matter how good the Atma-sphear amps sound, you just cant tell me it represents any kind of value for the money.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think it's fair to say that about anything short of a house for that money. Bottom line is, people who are spending that money on something like that are not looking for value. After all, they are the cheapest 485W OTL tube-amps out there...

I don't think there's any reason to get bunched up about it, if people are buying those I hope they don't disappoint! The bottom line is that there is plenty of *excellent* audio gear available at very reasonable prices for those of us whose finances dwell on planet earth, be it speakers, tube amps, ss amps or whatever.

Personally, I think the idea of a 485W tube amp is sort of pointless. If it wasn't about the power, I would bet that numerous amps costing less than $2000 would sonically give these a run for their money if not besting them, and then you have to consider what kind of situations require that kind of power where sound quality is a high concern.

I wonder what kind of current they draw from the wall...

Dave

[scott fitlin]

Im just saying, in the 1990,s those same amps were $6500, today they are almost 100 thousand!

I know we have inflation, gas prices rose, etc. But that companies inflation is OUTTASIGHT!

I also know, from talking to people in the industry, that they began raising prices so that peoples perception of their gear would be high. The cable companies and their off the wall expensive prices for interconnects taught many, that people percieve a products quality, and sound by its price. Some people will never accept a $500 amplifier as being any good, because it doesnt cost enough!

People have this feeling that IF it costs more, IT must be better!

Sadly, its not always true. And, yes, there is some terrible, but very expensive, and flashy looking High End gear out there too!

[Steve Schell]

Scott, we're talking about different amplifiers entirely. The current MA-1 Mk. III sells for $14,600 per pair, not 100 grand.

The MA-3 is apparently a statement product, probably built in tiny nembers. Projects like these, freed from cost contraints, often lead to better products at real world prices as the advances in technology trickle down.

http://www.atma-sphere.com/products/index.html

[selmerdave]

Hi Scotty,

I'm in 100% agreement with you about all of that. I say if they want to spend the money just because something's expensive, go for it. I don't care as long as there are alternatives for people like me.

BTW, the amps described above were not available in 1990, they are a high-powered version (485w vs. 140w) of the the amps you are probably talking about with the $6500 price tag. Not that I think $100k is justified but given what's involved a much higher price than the original ones would be expected. Just the parts that go into a 150 lb. power supply add up in a hurry.

Dave

[selmerdave]

...and Steve beat me to it!

Dave

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by Steve Schell:
Scott, we're talking about different amplifiers entirely. The current MA-1 Mk. III sells for $14,600 per pair, not 100 grand.

The MA-3 is apparently a statement product, probably built in tiny nembers. Projects like these, freed from cost contraints, often lead to better products at real world prices as the advances in technology trickle down.

http://www.atma-sphere.com/products/index.html

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I am aware that companies statement products use technology that eventually trickles down to their lesser priced lines.

But, I am also aware that some companies also use price as a way to establish desire among the cost no object crowd. The " If It Costs More It MUST Be beter " mentality. Really, some people are seriously affected by price and status of something, they cannot be happy or comfortable if it doesnt cost enough.

As I said, I used to go out to listen to things I read amazing reviews about in hi end rags like Stereophile, sometimes the products impressed, and sometimes they were a downright disappointment.

I vividly remember my Krell listening impressions, more than once, I hated the way those things sounded. And this brand also makes amps that cost as much as a house used to cost, too! On one set of speakers, the Krell sounded absolutely edgy and harsh in the HF, raspy sort of in the mids, and I made a comment, and the salesperson said I obviously wasnt used to hearing EVERYTHING!

The stupid thing was I then asked to hear the same speakers on a McIntosh amp, a new model at that, I dunno, sounded alot nicer to me!

There are some high end things available that do sound great, but, IMHO, there IS alot of hype and pure BS out there too!

[scott fitlin]

Now, I was at the AES show last week, at the Javits center in Manhattan. Theres is this company, Ocean way, headed by Alan Sides.

The guy has this custom built horn loaded speaker system he designed and built, using all JBL components, and old Crown amps, DC-300A,s, and a Crest on the subs, we couldnt believe how good this speaker system sounded! granted the amps were modified to meet whatever criteria was needed, and JBL is NOT cosnidered high end, yada, yada, ya, and Crown amps on a great speaker system?

But it didnt matter, this speaker system sounded absolutely amazing!

Mostly this system is designed and built for studio monitoring, but IMHO, I heard better from this, than alot of high end I have heard.

Once again showing me it isnt so much how much it costs, as much as proper design, and proper use that makes the most difference. I wasalways partial to those old crowns, and even years ago, people used to sneer at them, and to this day, I still think they sound great on the right speakers.

I also heard some new tube based EQ,s and amps I thought sounded great too. And although not cheap, the pro stuff is more in reach, used properly, does a great job!

[Steve Schell]

Scott, it is true what you say. There is a lot of silly pricing in high end (I call it hind end) audio. More than once I have been subjected to atrocious sound from a $100k or $200k system at an audio "salon." I have been counseled that the best way to kill sales of a high performance audio product is to price it too cheaply. It's a crazy world.

Horn speaker enthusiasts who do their homework are in an enviable position in that it is possible to build a phenomenal horn system for not too much money that will outperform almost anything available commercially regardless of cost. Knowledge is more useful than a pile of cash in attaining a superior speaker system. This is the flip side of the hind end trap, and this time we come out on top.

[Old Guy]

Originally posted by Steve Schell:

Knowledge is more useful than a pile of cash in attaining a superior speaker system.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen!

[selmerdave]

Originally posted by scotty j:
But when the salespeople tell me that " Your obviously not used to hearing everything " because I didnt care for how an amp sounded, thats when I say BS!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I remember going into a Manhattan "audio salon" and listening to a few things just to humour myself. Not altogether awful but the only thing special was the price $$$. The salesperson asked what I was listening to, and I told him Altec 604's. He said, "Ah, yes, I remember the first time I listened to a pair of 604's. A buddy and I were at a friend's house to hear them, and literally in the very first instant that music started playing, we both went like this (covering his ears with his hands)." I wondered what he was trying to accomplish be telling me that, I couldn't decide if he was trying to insult me or tell me that he doesn't have a clue. Either way not exactly a sales pitch.

Dave